>> i agree, i think that there is just it looks like there was a struggle, i think he will be -- no dime. ashley: we'll see thank you so much for joining us, thank you, stay tuned for cavuto. >> all right. thank you, and we will know within the hour, is darren wilson guilty of murder or will he not be charged with anything at all? we already know this much, a grand jury has decided, it is known for better part of 3 hours now. but the details of that decision, are due out at the end of this your, beginning of next hour. it goes something like this, darren wilson could either be indicted on murder or manslaughter or not at all. and if not at all there are growing fears that ferguson, erent all over against -- erunning all oveeruptall over a. former mayor fletcher, on what
to make of the calm before the possible storm, let me ask you if wilson is not indicted what do you could fallout will be. >> we don't know, all we know is ha happened on august 10. the day after the shooting. there was a great deal of unrest, but i think attitude is preparing for worst, and hoping for the best. but only time and god knows what will happen tonight. >> do you think that governor nixon has taken all precautions he has, and heavy police present, all of that is in anticipation of crowd reaction to no indictment? >> i do believe that is the case. i wish governor would have come out earlier, there was a lot of nervous residents in ferguson wondering when we would hear something, i am glad he came out, indicating he is expecting peace, and they will not allow
any of the things that happened on august 10 to reoccur. but, you have a right to free speech, we all want that. and as long as they are peaceful, they are welcome to be in the city. >> as you indicateed in past, did you not take much in raw emotions for something to go from peaceful to something that triggers unrest of august, do you envision that? >> i envision that can can be possible, there are always people that look at this as an opportunity to steal and destroy, but i believe most of the individuals that are upset about the microbrown shooting, are truly, upset, and in their heart they say it that we may not all see the same way, much like the oj simpson trial. >> mayor, we're told that michael brown's parents were made aware of the times of the decision, but not what that decision would be.
>> correct. >> do you find that surpriseing? >> no, i don't. i think they want to announce it to everyone at the same time, so there is fairness, in that, i think that brown family understands that. >> all right mayor thank you very much. mayor was speaking we're getting separate reports from prosecutor office in ferguson that if ni indictment is handed down, he will release all records and all grand jury documents, without approval of the court. that is a classic case of makes a bad situation potentially explosive. this begs question whether this es bey j t michael ow cas can t rso and ger, say thacomy feuson, a rsofor ensions, elain t par >> well, it is a tragedy what is happening today, the economy, their education system has been pretty much gone. these kids do not have a good
public school system, the resource is not there, economy is bad, a lot of people don't have job. >> a lot of community suffer that but do not erupt like this. >> true, but the part we're not hearing is there has been police brutality particularly in community, we're outside, we', e that stems from the economic reours available to this community. >> what do you make if no guilty verdict is handed in, everything is out, all that it make this a volcano? >> i think the contrary, i think that is of the utmost importance in particular if no charges are filed. a no bill or something, this is of utmost importance thats american people in particular people of that community, look
at the evidence that led the grand jury to those facts, that led them to a concussion. >> you are right. a step back could tell you back, but people would interpret and read into documents and data and faxes what they will. >> true. but -- you know i was there with dr. alveda king, we're leading a campaign called restore the dream 2015. i welcome you to visit our site, we were there in ferguson several weeks ago, it is -- we were there with a variety of folks, we met with police chief, mayor, and senator nadal. a black democrat who represents that community, we more personally we met with the community itself. it is most important that we distinguish between the people of ferguson, and kathrine av right there are concerns and
frustrations that exist within that community, many of it economic. and outsideage gators that see this as a circus opportunity for their own agenda, just today of, neil, in a press conference, we saw communist revolutionary newspaper character calling himself a journalist, saying if a right verdict is not launched here -- what is his agenda? >> you are right, katrina there are people trying to -- needs to be, how do you add vi advise fot to be affected by that, you point out many ar are angry. >> well, sure, you know transparency would be best, but we heard so far, is this may have been a justified shooting, and way to prove that, is to let this information come out. >> you would be for that?
>> i would be for that, that shows, they are not hiding something from you, you were not tricked. so that will be really important, but this particular case, people feel leak we have access to truth. now as far as reaction, you know i hope things don't go bad in ferguson because nothing goodwill welcom will come from e are many people out their, their hearts go out to ferguson, we understand there are pub problems there, and people can help with them, fighting back against whatever verdict comes you on tonight is going to make matters worse. >> you heard before the former mayor, niger said that, it is his sense that given governor's preparations, that is national guardsmen and rest, and much stronger police present that he knows grand jury verdict, and he knows there might not be any indictment.
he is prepareing for the worst. what do you think of that? >> well, i think it is of the ut most im-- utmost importance to prepare for worst. it is not only having necessary force to protect the citizens of ferguson, their property, protect the businesses within the community, speaking of economic, problems, you know a lot of these businesss that were looted and destroyed were black-owned businesses, what happens when the circs you us ls town? you neil, and fox business, network and other medea entities in world, leave ferguson. what type of economic devastation will be left in the wake of circus leaving town. that is so important that we consider that. and that the -- i applaud them, using the necessary force to protect property, to protect
citizens, and the first amendment rights of those votess of ferguson and -- citizens of ferguson and outsideers to peacefully protest, if people act up they need to protect the rights of the people of ferguson. >> to say nothing of those businesss that are usually open for business but shuttered themselves in the case of this tonight. as many did in august when stores were looted, including our next guest, manager of a store hit hard, and looted during riots that occurred last august. manager joining me now, jan, how have you prepared if ther for t? >> we've been boarded up, with plywood, and actually as we're speaking my guys working for closing down the store, because you have it all over the news it wilwill come out 8:00, i don't t
anyone to be there. >> you refer 8:00 your time. 9:00 eastern time. do you think that if in end bilson is not indictment -- wilson is not indicted there will be hell to pay in your community, despite the browns saying keep your cool? >> i think that majority of people will listen, but. i just have something telling me that there will be people out there, still wanting to do the same thing that happened in august. i am praying and hoping with my tafamily that nothing will happ, but i think that is the governor prepared for the worst, that is what most appropriate way to do it you have to you know have to prepare for the worst, and hope
that nothing is going to happen, and it will go along peacefully. >> how is has it been outside your store today and tonight? >> well, actualy from 6:00, i know, a bunch of businesses have been closing up. we had a lot of traffic in and out because we are actually -- we were not only store open until now, so there is a well the of people talking about what verdict will be. and if he will be indicted or what will happen, it is just, a messy situation all over. >> have you seen or any evidence yourself of outside agitateors, people from nowhere near ferguson just trying to make things crazy? >> oh, yeah. i heard i have been on phone all night with different people, and in are just a big group of
crowds gathering all over the city right now. so it is, something telling me that something is going to happen tonight. but, you know, all we can do is wait and see. >> we will, wait, see and pray, jan, i know wit have been throuh that before, we wish you well. >> issu appreciate it. >> thank you very much. scene right now in ferguson, where we're going to be awaiting a decision from grand jury this has been delayed multiple hours, but they are expected, grand jury decision to spell out, any indictment if any for darren wilson and whether he is guilty of murder in death of michael brown. we will not know for 45 or 46 minutes are so ahead of that, to garrett denny in ferguson with latest on what appears to be a build up was not only police present, at this point, but certainly tkpwaeurts o garrett . >> yes, a couple of crowds
growing across st. louis, but here in ferguson, there are two spots they are blocking off-roads and intersections, crowds from second 0 to 100 folks -- 60 to 100 folks it has shots up and grown here in last hour, as we work closer to the announcement, we're told those protesters they are peaceful thus far, and they are loud, passionate but peaceful, that is what police have said they hope will continue, they want to give protesters the ability to make their voices heard, but to do it in a fac pes a -- peace kwul w . we have seen an uptick in activity here. and a fleet of ambulances, and a couple times a group of about 10 to 12 state highway patrol vehicles, zip out of here to respond to some of the growing
protests that you see in ferguson. but also in other parts of st. louis, the businesses here in ferguson, they have pretty much all shut down as soon as word came out that grand jury now the would come tonight -- announcement would come tonight, in anticipation of any unrest that may come. >> thank you, we're 45 minutes away from a grand jury decision, on what to do with when darren wilson, -- now the grand jury could decide to indict him on murder, sla manslaughter or nott all. given that city's past, and rocky nature of all of this, and volatile racial tensions in ci
city. you can understand the preparation ahead of this on the part of governor nixon and local authorities. national guardsman present upwards of 400, and a tripleing of police in theiary, not all in uniform. their presenting be known, and made obvious. then question is if no dime comes down -- dime comes down, do feds get their respond at federal level. then what? legal battle that would follow, assumeing you think it settle here tonight. after this. ♪ (holiday music is playing)
>> ferguson put on the map. a officer shot and killed a young man by the name of michael brown. that officer, darren wilson, is subject of a grand jury probe tonight, a grand jury decision we're told of made hours ago. if he gets off, reasoning is this could be bedlam in downtown ferguson, we know that occurs as a concurrent federal probe is ongoing. that attorney general of united states indicated that if he does
not get a decision that he presumably wants, that is an indictment, federal authorities would pursue one of their own. >> randy to you. on what attorney general office could be doing, presumably eric holder would cease and desist. if they indict. >> it is difficult to say, that grand jury has options, i think you throw out first-degree murder, there is no premeditation, in missouri second degree murder, covers everything else except for manslaughter. or gross negligence.
let's say, they come back with manslaughter, if attorney general holder was hoping for second degree murder, is he going to jump in? it said. neil: that would make a messy sisituation messier. >> that is horrible, this undermines the role of the state prosecutor, this is a state crime, a state grand jury, let them do it. neil: we're hearing protesters saying tonight, indict that cop, indict that cop, no justice, no peace, no calm, by that i take it that i want to see first-degree murder. >> there are many people in country who want to see a first-degree murder indictment in this case. >> what if they don't get it? >> burn baby burn i suppose. this is such an emork alley
charged case -- emotionally charged case at-this-point, people have been waiting for what they perceive to be justice, that is say indictment and a trial of this police officer, if they don't get to emotions will erupt. >> do you think then it is proper for the federal authority to attorney general office to insert itself to a g degree it has, maybe in name of richal fairness -- racial fairness but to now many seem to have taken sides. >> if there is no indictment, i agree with eric holder there should be a full federal investigation. if feds find evidence to bring an dime they should. we cannot rely on local prosecuteer to make these kinds of decisions that is whether to prosecute a police officer in a high profile case, they are
local politicians, district attorney that indicts this officer will not be the district attorney after the next election. >> what do you make of that? they would -- i understand, chris, imsorry. >> they would be ill serving? >> i have t to represent repre - respectfully disagree, it is not district attorney that is indicting it is 12 citizens of the community that heard the evidence, they have sat for a long period of time, our understanding is they heard more evidence than would normally be expected in a grand jury, a prosecutor that has thrown everything at this grand jury, win, lose or draw, i would respectfully submit, what another grand jury will do a better job, then what is purpose to begin with of state prosecutors. neil: gentleman, we just don't know. finish up quickly. >> i just think naive to think
that prosecutor is not no criminacontrol of this grand jut san remember after the court -- it is an arm of the court. neil: we'll see, police present is there react after this. it's monday, a brand new start. with centurylink visionary cloud infrastructure, and custom communications solutions, your business is more reliable, secure, and agile.
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72 we know a ferguson grand jury has decided to what to do with the officer that shot michael brown, my question is, why are they pay thein -- waiting until nighttime to detail it. >> reason in daytime, there may be more innocents, pedestrians on the street. neil: there might be spectators. >> if you are right there, best advice get home, and lock your door 92 wha.neil: what do you ts if there no indictment. >> i think that expectation by
media and politicians it was r wharidiculous who governor nin did, almost welcoming this. neil: do you think he knows? >> i think he knows this incredible response, he is getting ready. >> he should have talked it down, i think he is ramping it up, in my opinion. >> i don't think this would have dissuaded some, it works them up? >> they are committed, they are waiting. have you an tateors -- agitateors. neil: you said something interesting, that it does not matter that decision, right. >> nope. neil: explain. >> there is such a state of frenzy, like we're going to this fight, there is going to be a fight no matter what, i want to see a fight, a riot, it is going to happen. neil: that sounds violent like
august or less? >> i think more than august. i think it is a mistake to put national guard, wh -- they dont have training, they don't know how to do urban policing. neil: you might be right, you think relar regardless it will t ugly. >> people are there for a reason, almost a self fulfilling prophecy. neil: do you think that fed complicated things, with the federal probe, saying, if you don't rule the way we want, we'll pick up the baton. >> i am going to be careful, i think eric holeer went down there and maybe short-term did an appease am, long-term, did a tremendous aim of damage, a law
enforcement officer should always get the benefit of the doubt, if he is a bad cop lock him up, but what you to do moral to believes in country is a detriment to this nation, and holder is a key part of that? we're about a half hour from this decision. it could stred across the country. thaspread acrossthe country, ang this time, during this great period of thanksgiving may not give thanks for what is going down in this part of the nation tonight. more on that after this.
you escaped damage last time but, you must be worried this go? >> yes, i am. because this business is our lifeline. for the community as well, i am quite worried about it hopefully, as we all have been, a lot of my colleagues very worried about it, and we're hoping that things don't get as bad as in august or worse. >> you know, i admire about you, you could have said, you know what ferguson is not worth the grief. my be could get ransacked. if bad things happen tonight, will you stick by that? >> yes that is a great question. i talked with my brother my
fartepartner, we talked about t, what should we do? you know, we're very much solid in our decision that -- we'll stay there. because we do believe in the people of ferguson. i have a lot of, there, not just business but a lot of my employees live in ferguson, we'll hold true to those folks there. as los angeles as to business. if it continues to happen, as a businessman, be careful. because, you know, i can't go bankrupt, stuff like that. but, i think for now we'll beholding true to that fact we'll stay there. neil: you are a good man, hopefully they will get over it. cojoaner of jackson hewlett tax service. thank you peter.
>> should businesses everywhere be getting ready, we hear reports of sympathetic demonstrations and chicago, and oregon that was then, same cities seeing some type of activity. including union square in new york. former best buy ceo, said this is what you have to worry about, copycat disruption that sometimes happens, it did in august. do sui it happening again? >> i hope not, i think we have to be careful, the discussion of it can make it more likely to happen. neil: you are right. >> i think that businesss have to be prepared for it and a real delicate line, you have to be prepared for something to happen, priority has to be keeping your people safe. and on other hand, you can't really do too much that might actually, help signal it. so, it is a very delicate balance, and businesses have to
pay careful to and have a plan for. neil: we maybe have enough gray hairs, that we could remember prior riots and demonstrations where in effort to keep people safe, businesses shuttered stores days or weeks at a time, the economic impact on the businesses of real and the communities as well, what do you look for here? as this ensues? it short or quick? people vent but not violent, what? >> well i think first thing is ferguson and short of this is, quicker it is over with, least damage will leave the community in a very different circumstance if something darker happens. i think the -- then for any other community in and something could happen we've seen communities 40 years later are still devastated by things ha s ta happened, in 60s, i have a
friend started a business, had was burned out, he never went back to the business again, there is a lasting impact from violence. neil: you know, a lot of people will loot stores just to steal stuff, but some are targeting stores because, they are associated with authority or, they side with the power that be. they are anti-the people, how do you advise business to over cam that wrong bias? >> that is a toughest thing i can imagine, i am friends with people on the walmart, they are constantly treated as bad citizens by a percentage of the population, despite of i would argue they have dramatically included spending power of low income americans, this is a very tough to get through sort of a general media appearance, i think doing as much as you can to avoid that, by being active
with the community is helpful, but if. you run into the wrong voices too frequently can get almost impossible to manage through the circumstances. neil: or see light through their prism, brad anderson, former best buy cocoa. when -- ceo, when americans are polled it is among many reasons they are less optimistic for their children's future than their own, what is that collective funk that they are in? defense secretary of united states, third one in 6 years is stepping down, this is say control issue, a losing sense of who we are issue without psychobabble. someone far more expert in this area, to pick apart how we're feeling after this.
down. just as the president is at an all-time low. congress isn't all that much higher. we've given up on our authorities to deal with situations like what's developing in ferguson, missouri. no wonder americans are feeling down and out, they're nervous as all. how do you get them off the ledge? >> i think there certainly is a crisis of confidence for a good reason. because we really need to believe that our leaders can lead. and that we're in good hands. and when we don't have that sense for good reason, it creates a lot of anxiety. we need people to communicate to us that they know what they're doing. >> i get the feeling they don't. nothing against right or left, it's the keystone cops running the asylum. >> when there is that assessment, then hopelessness, helplessness, sometimes anger
and dedepression. we want to feel like there's hope in the future. good leaders give us a sense that we have hope. we're on the right track. that we're a special nation. we need to feel that our leaders are special. so we can feel we're special. >> how do you bridge the gap? either darren wilson isn't guilty and he was doing his job and this kid was a crook or vice-versa, michael brown was at the wrong place, at the wrong time with the wrong trigger happy police officer. there seems to be very little middle ground. >> people are assessing things through their own experience through their own emotional response. >> we've heard from some of the protesters, where there can be no peace. >> that's unfortunate. that's a highly reactive state.
>> there might be some say at that say, if there isn't an indictment, there can be no peace either. right? >> we have to go through the proper channels when it comes to convicting people of certain crimes. if we don't like the way things are being decided, we have to go through the proper channels. >> the federal government has made things worse by conducting this parallel probe into this shooting incident almost saying, that verdict doesn't go our way, we'll override them and have a federal investigation and get our way. in other words, inserting themselves into a volatile situation that was bad enough. >> right. i'm not in agreement with that. i think the government needs to pull out out of local situations. we need to respect the people who are in the court systems and handling the things close up and personal to assess the situation properly.
and hope that, you know, we have leaders within that community who underscore the importance of not getting violent? neil: do you see these crowds gathering? we're about 15 minutes away from the decision. obviously, something is building. >> the anticipation of what if? what if things don't go my way? what if the wrong guy is convicted or not convicted. neil: then you resort to violence. >> when people are frustrated and don't i have a proper way of dealing with that frustration or don't have a voice -- neil: if you're the police, do give them latitude on that violence or none? >> oh, wow. neil: they throw a rock at a store. is that good enough for you to say, that's it. >> you need to set limits when it comes to violence. we don't want things to get out of control. neil: always calm. wish i had her around
the time i had exams in school. back to when the federal government made this situation a lot worse than it need be in ferguson and whether the comments the president of the united states made to stef on the part to furr complicates the situation there after this approximat your 16-year-old daughter
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call to learn about our whole range of life event discounts. newlywed discount. new college graduate and retiree discounts. you could even get a discount when you add a car. call liberty mutual for a free quote today at see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. neil: nine minutes away from the ferguson grand jury decision that we were told some hours ago, but they' waingor 8:00.m.entl tme. 9:00 p.m. eastern time to make it official. this whole tension convention has been made much worse by attorney general eric holder when he visited back in august and complicated this past weekend when
the president told george stephanopoulos he might be looking at a visit to ferguson if the subdivision should arise. colonel, you think they're adding fuel to the fire here? >> well, that's absolutely right. and happy thanksgiving, neil. because what you have happening is a complete violation of the system of federalism that we have in the united states of america. we don't need the president of the united states or a local. [no audio] an jus last wee it ery intresng, e ha a palle case gog o iirgia where four black members of a gang, the 99gooks killed him. used his credit and debit cards. used drove around in this car. then holder said the death penalty wouldn't be a part of this case. why would he do something like that. why would he sit back
and say if he don't get the decision we want, we will continue on f you authority of there, the district attorney, and the system of justice in the state of missouri. that's not what the federal government should be doing. (?) neil: colonel, at the risk of sounding patronizing. i'm sure you'll forgive me. but as a prominent african-american there are many african-americans who feel they have been tan advantage here and that they are a victim here. in a large sense they've been taken advantage of again here. what do you say to them? >> i will say very simply that, if the evidence points toward the wrongdoing by this police officer, darren wilson, then the system of justice that we have, the lawful and legal processes and procedures that we have in place that have been a part of this constitution republic for quite some time will come out and
prove correct. and we do have those fail-safe systems that are out there. but if the evidence does not point toward him being indicted or the evidence points towards a lesser charge, that's the system of justice we have. we can't all of a sudden start to h he he is uthe rule of law. we saw the president making some hay out of the fact that he can't do exactly what he did by executive order. it says clearly in the constitution, article one, section eight clause, number four. now, we have people that are cheering and thanking him for taking that action, but it's an unlawful action he took. and it would be unlawful for this mob justice to try to supersede the processes that we have in place. and that's what i would say to them. (?) neil: i'm glad i asked that question via remote. thank you very much. all right. that decision and to the colonel's point is in.
neil: minutes away from the decision that could change life at ferguson, missouri, all over again, or could be greeted calmly. hard to say. garet with the latest minutes ahead of a grand jury final read. sir. >> yeah, neil, what we're hearing, we can expect county prosecutor to give a 20-minute statement. after that, he will begin taking questions from the media. now, that will be fed via a video stream that we will all be able to get access to. very small courtroom there. not a lot of folks. in the last 20 minutes leading up to it, it's packed with reporters over there. very little talking. just a sign of the
anticipation building leading up to this. part of this, as well as part of the ferguson police department the last hour. the crowds have been consistently growing. our producer there on the ground says, it is actually rather festive leading up to the decision, it's not heated in the interactions with police for the most part. but that has been growing as well. couple other locations throughout ferguson. there are some small groups gathering. after this announcement though, that's really where we'll be able to find out what will happen throughout the rest the night and what police will wait for. neil: do we know why it would take 20 minutes? >> no word on that right now. we do know a big part we've been hearing from the prosecutor's office as of late is this evidence they've been gathering throughout the entire three and a half months. that the grand jury has been going through. he said, if it comes back no indictment, which many people believe will will be the case, he will take all
that evidence and make it public following this announcement. back and forth on whether or not he has the ability to do that without permission from the judge. so that's a point that we expect he will be hearing from. but this afternoon, we did receive an email from his office with instructions on how to download any of that information if and when it is released according to his office. >> now, obviously, he's taking from that, there's enough factual evidence there to go -- to go ahead and indict darren williamson. others could look at the same material and say it's not. he could be adding to the brush fire one way or the other. >> really, all along his whole theory, the idea behind him doing that is to take the political pressure by giving it to the grand jurily bisaying i'll let them decide. let them decide, are they going to charge him? what charge it is they're going to seek? a lot of that will be to
protect him and in releasing this evidence, it's just that other step of saying, look, here is what they looked at. (?) this is everything they saw and this is how they reached this decision. so we know all along protesters have said, they don't want him to be the one heading up this case. he's hoping by releasing this evidence, it will take off some of that pressure. neil: this is the scene of the courtroom right now where they're going to spell out what that decision is. again, i don't see anyone in the room per se. we're told the announcement itself will be brief. although, as garet pointed out, the detailing of that and how they came to that conclusion could linger on for 20 minutes. then, you know, how that will go. additional questions after that. katrina pearson joins me now. what do you make of the fact that the prosecutor is holding out, okay, i'll release all the details, pertinence of this case. he would seem to be telegraphing he lost.